View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0005843The Dark ModCodingpublic28.01.2024 02:47
Reporterstgatilov Assigned Tostgatilov  
PrioritynormalSeveritynormalReproducibilityalways
Status confirmedResolutionopen 
Product VersionTDM 2.09 
Summary0005843: Dmap computes wrong shadows on version 4 of NHAT
DescriptionDmap precomputes shadow volumes for world geometry.
These volumes are shown when r_useOptimizedShadows is enabled and stencial shadows are used.

Testing shows that new version of "No Honor Among Thieves" has a lot of broken shadows near the start of the first mission.
It seems that they go away if one disabled the aforementioned cvar.
Steps To ReproduceSimple way to reproduce is available on assets SVN:
1) dmap noflood 5843_dmap_lantern_patch_grid.map
2) map 5843_dmap_lantern_patch_grid.map
3) Make sure stencil shadows are enabled, soft shadows are disabled

Alternative approach is:
1) map 5843_dmap_lantern_patch_grid.map
2) r_useOptimizedShadows 0; r_useTurboShadow 0; reloadModels
3) Make sure stencil shadows are enabled, soft shadows are disabled

Check how shadows look: you'll see thin black/light lines moving around on a fully static scene.
TagsNo tags attached.

Relationships

related to 0005172 resolvedstgatilov Improve interaction culling: case when player-visible object is not visible from light 

Activities

Bikerdude

Bikerdude

17.12.2021 15:40

reporter   ~0014595

Once the xmas contest map is done I can take a look and see which light/s or entities have the "r_useOptimizedShadows" on and remove it.
stgatilov

stgatilov

24.01.2022 16:06

administrator   ~0014691

No difference on "dmap_compatibility 209"
It is quite likely that the issue started happening long time ago...
stgatilov

stgatilov

24.01.2022 16:26

administrator   ~0014692

Last edited: 24.01.2022 16:29

The issue happens on the kind of lights shown on the screenshot.
It seems that it only happens in the starting area (maybe because it has larger coords).
I flew around the map and did not find any more issues, even where seemingly the same lights are used.

The problem here is the grid occluder, which consists of many thin wires very close to the light source.
Dmap processing makes them slightly non-closed, which can have ill influence of the generated shadow volumes.
It is still interesting why only precomputed shadows suffer from this problem.
The runtime shadows are usually generated with another algorithm (turbo shadows), maybe it is more resistant to problems of occluding geometry.

By the way, I saw similar problems on Painter's Wife in the sewers section (large round vertical room with lots of water) happening on the same kind of light source.
I think we should get rid of it somehow... is it a prefab?

I suppose several workarounds can fix the problem:
1) Convert the grid into model (or better create a brand new model which is perfectly closed).
2) Set "noPrelight" "1" spawnarg on the light entity to stop dmap from precomputing its shadows (runtime generation seems to work fine).
stgatilov

stgatilov

17.09.2022 07:13

administrator   ~0015250

Last edited: 27.11.2022 14:46

Ok, the problem is in non-turbo shadow volume generation, not in dmap.
Because if I set:
  r_useOptimizedShadows 0
  r_useTurboShadow 0
  reloadModels
Then the engine regenerated shadows in runtime using the non-turbo algorithm, and I see the same issues.
But with turbo algorithm (which uses the same model) shadow volume is perfect.
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

17.09.2022 08:50

reporter   ~0015252

Thanks for looking into this fella.
nbohr1more

nbohr1more

15.11.2022 02:39

developer   ~0015423

Moving to 2.12

Workarounds exist:

1) Convert the grid into model (or better create a brand new model which is perfectly closed).
2) Set "noPrelight" "1" spawnarg on the light entity to stop dmap from precomputing its shadows (runtime generation seems to work fine).
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

15.11.2022 07:37

reporter   ~0015429

I have used that model in other maps (WIS, SLL) and dont have this issue with the shadows.

But can update NHAT if this is simpler.
nbohr1more

nbohr1more

15.11.2022 13:30

developer   ~0015430

The leaks are probably dependent on position and whether the coordinates are hitting a precision limit.

Yes, feel free to update NHAT for now.

All this said, this is the sort of artifact that an erode shader on the shadow FBO would clean up...

https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20664-improving-shadow-map-performance/&do=findComment&comment=478958
stgatilov

stgatilov

27.11.2022 09:46

administrator   ~0015477

I extracted a small testmap 5843_dmap_lantern_patch_grid.map.
I verified that the same issue happens even on TDM 2.00.

So something is bad with the particular use case:
  * large coordinates?
  * patch is not closed?
stgatilov

stgatilov

27.11.2022 10:38

administrator   ~0015478

I got some limited reduction of leaks by reducing epsilon in R_ChopWinding, but thin lines remain.

To be honest, the whole piece of code for shadow volume generation (non-turbo one) cries to me "we did not know what topological consistency is!".
I don't think just fixing a few issues will help here.

Two ways to proceed:
  1) Switch this whole piece of code to double precision + reduce epsilon.
   That won't be easy, but should help.
   Of course, it would be slower for realtime processing, but since 0005886 we only use turbo shadows in realtime.
  2) Rewrite the whole stuff with guaranteed topological consistency.
   That's a lot of work (and fun), I don't want to waste so much time on an issue that has been present forever but people somehow avoid it.
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

27.11.2022 12:45

reporter   ~0015480

Checking NHAT I see its the original worldspawn patch, where as in WIS/SLL I have used the model. So it maybe that only NAH needs updating.

It may also explain why I am not seeing this issue in WIS/SLL..?
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          <selectionGroup id="874"/>
        </selectionGroups>
        <selectionSets/>
      </patch>
    </primitives>
    <keyValues>
      <keyValue key="classname" value="worldspawn"/>
      <keyValue key="shop_skip" value="1"/>
    </keyValues>
    <layers>
      <layer id="0"/>
    </layers>
    <selectionGroups/>
    <selectionSets/>
  </entity>
</map>
downfacing_lamp_grill.pfbx (78,479 bytes)   
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

27.11.2022 13:44

reporter   ~0015482

so  r_useTurboShadows 0 isnt recognised in TDM 2.10 so I wasnt able to test it.

In the meantime here is an updated map where I have done a monir cleaup of the lamps and converted to a single FS, can one of you test it from your side?
politics.7z (3,802,936 bytes)
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

27.11.2022 13:46

reporter   ~0015484

oh and why can't I/we edit notes to correct typos... :-|
stgatilov

stgatilov

27.11.2022 14:47

administrator   ~0015486

Yes, making this a model definitely helps, because then it is never processed by dmap -> it uses turbo shadows.

The cvar is r_useTurboShadow without ending 's' (I have just corrected my posts).
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

27.11.2022 15:07

reporter   ~0015487

Ok exporting the the single FS as a model did not fix the issue, so then I exported just the individual lamp as a model and that didnt fix it.

So what do you mean by closed model?
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

27.11.2022 16:49

reporter   ~0015488

Belay the above, once I replaced ALL of the lights it is now much better but I am still seeing one weird shadow that I cant pinpoint whats causing it. I also applied "noPrelight 1" to these models, which made no difference :-|

So am recreating the model from scratch to see if that fixed it.
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

27.11.2022 19:43

reporter   ~0015491

So only changing the model 'mostly' fixed the issue, but to fix it completely Dragofer has pointed the reason its heppening is because the distance to the map center is too high. The engine is not able to work with such high coordinate numbers with 100% precision. So will get that part of the map closer to map origin and see if it fixes the issue.
Untitled.jpg (225,494 bytes)   
Untitled.jpg (225,494 bytes)   
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

27.11.2022 22:21

reporter   ~0015493

Moving the map closer to the map original didnt fix it.

The issue is being caused by the 3 hirozontal rings (see attached), but Im bugged if I know how to fix it or qwork around it. The current map is better but you can still see some artifacts.

I attched the tweaked model and the screen shots of the rings and the current look of the artifact.

And lastly here is a link to the updated map - https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuwAFc1gTZzehxQdOGCjZXsk_dVh?e=TweInA
image.png (90,106 bytes)   
image.png (90,106 bytes)   
models_fixed.zip (18,181 bytes)
image-2.png (90,106 bytes)   
image-2.png (90,106 bytes)   
image-3.png (90,106 bytes)   
image-3.png (90,106 bytes)   
Bikerdude

Bikerdude

27.11.2022 22:24

reporter   ~0015494

asd

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
17.12.2021 15:37 stgatilov New Issue
17.12.2021 15:37 stgatilov Status new => assigned
17.12.2021 15:37 stgatilov Assigned To => stgatilov
17.12.2021 15:40 Bikerdude Note Added: 0014595
24.01.2022 16:06 stgatilov Note Added: 0014691
24.01.2022 16:26 stgatilov Note Added: 0014692
24.01.2022 16:26 stgatilov File Added: nhat3_wrong_precomputed_shadow_volumes.jpg
24.01.2022 16:29 stgatilov Note Edited: 0014692
17.09.2022 07:13 stgatilov Note Added: 0015250
17.09.2022 08:50 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015252
17.09.2022 08:50 Bikerdude Description Updated
17.09.2022 08:51 Bikerdude Reproducibility have not tried => always
15.11.2022 02:39 nbohr1more Note Added: 0015423
15.11.2022 02:39 nbohr1more Target Version TDM 2.11 => TDM 2.12
15.11.2022 07:37 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015429
15.11.2022 13:30 nbohr1more Note Added: 0015430
27.11.2022 09:46 stgatilov Note Added: 0015477
27.11.2022 10:38 stgatilov Note Added: 0015478
27.11.2022 10:41 stgatilov Steps to Reproduce Updated
27.11.2022 10:41 stgatilov Status assigned => confirmed
27.11.2022 10:41 stgatilov Target Version TDM 2.12 =>
27.11.2022 12:45 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015480
27.11.2022 12:45 Bikerdude File Added: downfacing_lamp_grill.pfbx
27.11.2022 12:45 Bikerdude File Added: shaded_lamp_with_grill.lwo
27.11.2022 13:44 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015482
27.11.2022 13:44 Bikerdude File Added: politics.7z
27.11.2022 13:46 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015484
27.11.2022 14:46 stgatilov Note Edited: 0015250
27.11.2022 14:47 stgatilov Note Added: 0015486
27.11.2022 15:07 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015487
27.11.2022 16:49 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015488
27.11.2022 19:43 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015491
27.11.2022 19:43 Bikerdude File Added: Untitled.jpg
27.11.2022 22:21 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015493
27.11.2022 22:21 Bikerdude File Added: image.png
27.11.2022 22:21 Bikerdude File Added: models_fixed.zip
27.11.2022 22:21 Bikerdude File Added: image-2.png
27.11.2022 22:21 Bikerdude File Added: image-3.png
27.11.2022 22:24 Bikerdude Note Added: 0015494
28.01.2024 02:47 nbohr1more Relationship added related to 0005172