View Issue Details
|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0004408||The Dark Mod||Coding||public||31.10.2016 18:49||27.12.2020 13:55|
|Priority||normal||Severity||normal||Reproducibility||have not tried|
|Target Version||TDM 2.06||Fixed in Version||TDM 2.06|
|Summary||0004408: Find a way to run game tics on a background thread|
|Description||Since virtually all modern pc's have more than one core it would make sense to move things out of the main thread.|
DOOM3 BFG was designed to run both game tics and front renderer on a thread.
I think it should be easier in TDM to do the game tics first.
|Tags||No tags attached.|
|related to||0004621||resolved||nbohr1more||Lightgem does not initialize when installing a new mission or via vid_restart.|
|related to||0005169||assigned||cabalistic||Clean multithreading routines|
|related to||0005468||resolved||cabalistic||Debug rendering like s_drawSounds does not work under com_smp|
|child of||0003684||new||Investigate GPL Renderer Improvements|
Fabien Sanglard - The rendering system is now broken down in a frontend/backend: It reminds me of the design of a compiler which usually has a frontend->IR->backend pipeline. What this inspired by the design of LCC which was used for Quake3 bytecode generation ? I wonder what are the advantages over a monolithic renderer like Doom, idTech1 and idTech2.
John Carmack - This was explicitly to support dual processor systems. It worked well on my dev system, but it never seemed stable enough in broad use, so we backed off from it. Interestingly, we only just found out last year why it was problematic (the same thing applied to Rage’s r_useSMP option, which we had to disable on the PC) – on windows, OpenGL can only safely draw to a window that was created by the same thread. We created the window on the launch thread, but then did all the rendering on a separate render thread. It would be nice if doing this just failed with a clear error, but instead it works on some systems and randomly fails on others for no apparent reason.
The Doom 4 codebase now jumps through hoops to create the game window from the render thread and pump messages on it, but the better solution, which I have implemented in another project under development, is to leave the rendering on the launch thread, and run the game logic in the spawned thread.
|So far my attempts have been unsuccessful. Game tics have a bad habit to clear vertex ambient cache on model surfaces.|
Yeah, I read that a while ago.
I have no plans about touching the back renderer the way they were talking about here. Only non-opengl things, namely AI.
BTW "another project" is Doom3 BFG.
Last edited: 31.10.2016 19:48
Perhaps if you changed the VBO behavior per tracker:
RaynorPat has a hybrid renderer with Map Buffer Range VBO
similar fix here:
I would like to comment on that but I simply don't know the renderer that good.
It looks that the vertex data in the cpu memory is cleared, especially often during the "frob check" when a model is directly in front of the player.
I mean it's definitely what I am interested in but only after I understand how the renderer works and how data is processed starting from the model animator in game tics.
|That VBO fix makes the buffer more persistent rather than juggling two VBO streams. I imagine if you go async, you could provoke a buffer change at the wrong point in that juggling act, just hunch. I'll try implementing if I get time during this dev cycle.|
Honestly I can't remember anything in TDM that would look like two VBO streams - can you point to a specific place in code?
The patch affects:
VertexCache.cpp and VertexCache.h
but tr_render.cpp is where the counters are controlled.
|IMHO it wouldn't be enough in my case because the data is cleared on the model level. By vertex cache I meant the model class field called ambientCache|
|Hmm, the majority of ambient cache manipulation looks to be done in tr_light.cpp...|
Yeah, but there is more to it.
Regret it did not crash for me today but just run TDM with async tic on and you will see warnings in console about ambientcache. If you're lucky it crashes for you and you will see in stack trace for the game tic thread where exactly it clears ambientCache.
It should help if you have dynamic models in the frobable area in front of you.
I test on the ship in Down by the riverside with notarget and just follow the captain around.
Usually renderer only complains about missing ambientCache but sometimes when it is cleared after the check in BR but before actual use then it crashes.
Sorry for all the grasping here but I am tracing back to where timing and events are spawned.
I looks like the next level down the rabbit hole is ModelManager.cpp.
Perhaps we need to examine what is feeding ID_TIME_T in
Not very confident in that though.
Ok, how about this stack trace? It happens when you have e.g. a guard in a frobbing area.
> TheDarkMod.exe!R_FreeStaticTriSurfVertexCaches(srfTriangles_s * tri) Line 339 C++
TheDarkMod.exe!idMD5Mesh::UpdateSurface(const renderEntity_s * ent, const idJointMat * entJoints, modelSurface_s * surf) Line 282 C++
> TheDarkMod.exe!idRenderModelMD5::InstantiateDynamicModel(const renderEntity_s * ent, const viewDef_s * view, idRenderModel * cachedModel) Line 715 C++
TheDarkMod.exe!R_EntityDefDynamicModel(idRenderEntityLocal * def) Line 1107 C++
TheDarkMod.exe!idRenderWorldLocal::ModelTrace(modelTrace_s & trace, int entityHandle, const idVec3 & start, const idVec3 & end, const float radius) Line 1095 C++
gamex86.dll!idClip::TraceRenderModel(trace_s & trace, const idVec3 & start, const idVec3 & end, const float radius, const idMat3 & axis, idClipModel * touch) Line 949 C++
gamex86.dll!idClip::Translation(trace_s & results, const idVec3 & start, const idVec3 & end, const idClipModel * mdl, const idMat3 & trmAxis, int contentMask, const idEntity * passEntity) Line 1129 C++
gamex86.dll!idPlayer::PerformFrobCheck() Line 10994 C++
gamex86.dll!idPlayer::Think() Line 7610 C++
gamex86.dll!idGameLocal::RunFrame(const usercmd_t * clientCmds) Line 3389 C++
TheDarkMod.exe!idSessionLocal::RunGameTic() Line 2860 C++
TheDarkMod.exe!idSessionLocal::AsyncTick() Line 2578 C++
TheDarkMod.exe!idCommonLocal::Async() Line 2607 C++
Well the VBO side ot that code is in tr_trisurf.cpp where is calls vertexCache.free in R_FreeStaticTriSurfVertexCaches but there are no timers there so it must be happening in VertexCache.cpp
could be fighting against VertexCache actions when performing "delete cachedModel" actions.
That's where my expertise ends anywhere.
I can see that back renderer and game tic fight for ambientCache but I have no idea how to work around it.
Maybe make ambientCache atomic:
struct atomic<vertCache_s> * ambientCache;
I spent a few moments poking at this some more.
It looks like what we want is a mutex in the srfTriangles_t struct.
Here's a discussion of an implementation:
perhaps you can parse the example better than I?
Hmm.. it would make sense to use mutex if we had a racing condition here.
But I think it's a different kind of a problem - invalid state (caused by wrong call order).
I.e. the default order is
1. idMD5Mesh::UpdateSurface - ambient cache cleared (in this case, in player AI code - game tick)
2. ??? - ambient cache properly set, probably somewhere in front renderer
3. RB_T_FillDepthBuffer - ambient cache used in back renderer
When game tick (1) is running at the same time as back renderer (3) it gives an error because (2) was not called in between.
Last edited: 07.11.2016 19:45
Hmm. Step 2 sounds like
// touch it so it won't get purged
vertexCache.Touch( tri->ambientCache );
Yeah, R_AddAmbientDrawsurfs + R_CreateAmbientCache look very much it.
I think the best way out of this would be to somehow make idPlayer::PerformFrobCheck do its job without clearing ambient cache.
I am a little confused with all the big words here like dynamic model or model trace.
Front renderer sends to back surfaces for dynamic models that exist at that specific time.
Game tic clears dynamic models for AI entities (probably for all others too).
Conclusion: front render must be between game tic and back render.
|"com_asyncTic 1" crashes for me in the latest builds. As code freeze will be here shortly, can we move this to 2.06?|
We should absolutely move it to 2.06.
Where does it crash? On md5 ambient cache?
|I'll get more data about the crash but I do recall that it's no longer ambient cache. Appears to be font related as I recall.|
|Wrapped std::thread in an ifdef to appease the old gcc.|
|Cabalistic's patch applied|
|Added the r_smp cvar|
|Current implementation is as far as we'll get with 2.06|
Last edited: 20.10.2017 05:01
Disabled SMP for debug render tools like r_showSurfaceInfo.
Now these no longer reset to mission start or crash when com_smp 1 is active.
This should make game tics run at a constant 60 per second (16ms per tic) regardless of visual frame rate, right? I've tried to test this with
float start_time = sys.getTime();
sys.println("time elapsed is " + (sys.getTime() - start_time));
and found that the time per frame does change with visual FPS, i.e. 24ms if I run at uncapped 85fps, 16ms if I run at capped 60 fps. Obsttorte has also found a dependent relationship.
|31.10.2016 18:49||duzenko||New Issue|
|31.10.2016 18:52||duzenko||Assigned To||=> duzenko|
|31.10.2016 18:52||duzenko||Status||new => assigned|
|31.10.2016 19:07||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008413|
|31.10.2016 19:40||duzenko||Note Added: 0008414|
|31.10.2016 19:42||duzenko||Note Added: 0008415|
|31.10.2016 19:42||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008415|
|31.10.2016 19:44||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008415|
|31.10.2016 19:46||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008416|
|31.10.2016 19:47||nbohr1more||Note Edited: 0008416|
|31.10.2016 19:48||nbohr1more||Note Edited: 0008416|
|31.10.2016 20:03||duzenko||Note Added: 0008417|
|31.10.2016 20:07||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008417|
|31.10.2016 20:08||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008417|
|31.10.2016 20:34||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008418|
|31.10.2016 20:36||duzenko||Note Added: 0008419|
|31.10.2016 20:37||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008419|
|31.10.2016 20:51||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008420|
|31.10.2016 21:03||duzenko||Note Added: 0008421|
|31.10.2016 21:14||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008422|
|31.10.2016 21:18||duzenko||Note Added: 0008423|
|31.10.2016 21:19||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008423|
|31.10.2016 21:20||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008423|
|31.10.2016 21:21||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008423|
|31.10.2016 21:21||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008423|
|31.10.2016 21:23||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008423|
|31.10.2016 21:25||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008424|
|31.10.2016 21:33||duzenko||Note Added: 0008425|
|31.10.2016 21:35||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008425|
|31.10.2016 21:40||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008425|
|31.10.2016 21:40||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008425|
|31.10.2016 21:41||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008425|
|31.10.2016 21:51||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008426|
|31.10.2016 21:54||duzenko||Note Added: 0008427|
|01.11.2016 21:38||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008434|
|07.11.2016 16:13||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008448|
|07.11.2016 18:29||duzenko||Note Added: 0008449|
|07.11.2016 19:33||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008451|
|07.11.2016 19:45||nbohr1more||Note Edited: 0008451|
|07.11.2016 20:24||duzenko||Note Added: 0008453|
|07.11.2016 20:25||duzenko||Note Edited: 0008453|
|18.11.2016 21:53||duzenko||Note Added: 0008509|
|22.11.2016 17:38||nbohr1more||Status||assigned => resolved|
|22.11.2016 17:38||nbohr1more||Resolution||open => fixed|
|22.11.2016 17:38||nbohr1more||Product Version||=> SVN|
|22.11.2016 17:38||nbohr1more||Fixed in Version||=> TDM 2.05|
|22.11.2016 17:38||nbohr1more||Target Version||=> TDM 2.05|
|22.11.2016 17:38||nbohr1more||Status||resolved => assigned|
|22.11.2016 17:38||nbohr1more||Resolution||fixed => open|
|22.11.2016 18:51||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008535|
|22.11.2016 18:53||duzenko||Note Added: 0008536|
|22.11.2016 20:19||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0008537|
|22.11.2016 20:20||nbohr1more||Fixed in Version||TDM 2.05 =>|
|22.11.2016 20:20||nbohr1more||Target Version||TDM 2.05 => TDM 2.06|
|25.11.2016 20:24||duzenko||Note Added: 0008556|
|01.12.2016 21:11||nbohr1more||Relationship added||child of 0003684|
|06.08.2017 12:50||duzenko||Note Added: 0009057|
|14.08.2017 09:41||duzenko||Note Added: 0009085|
|17.09.2017 21:44||nbohr1more||Status||assigned => feedback|
|17.09.2017 21:45||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0009282|
|18.09.2017 13:38||nbohr1more||Relationship added||related to 0004621|
|20.09.2017 04:28||nbohr1more||Status||feedback => resolved|
|20.09.2017 04:28||nbohr1more||Resolution||open => fixed|
|20.09.2017 04:28||nbohr1more||Fixed in Version||=> TDM 2.06|
|20.10.2017 05:01||nbohr1more||Note Added: 0009520|
|20.10.2017 05:01||nbohr1more||Note Edited: 0009520|
|14.12.2020 23:08||nbohr1more||Relationship added||related to 0005169|
|27.12.2020 10:30||stgatilov||Relationship added||related to 0005468|
|27.12.2020 13:55||Dragofer||Note Added: 0013297|
|27.12.2020 13:55||Dragofer||Note Edited: 0013297|